God’s facebook.
Between You and Nic Theßeast Laughter

This is a decussion I had today with a kid name Nic after I posted some comments on God’s facebook.

No one will probably read this, but here it is after the jump.

Nic Theßeast Laughter
You seem pretty antagonistic toward the notion that God loves anybody. If you cared to, I’d love to tell you about the true love of God, not just the crap that most “christians” in North America portray. You see many people who are hypocrites and liars and selfish. That’s not the love of God. So, if you cared to learn what the love of God really looks like, I’d be more than willing to take the time out (I don’t have much time, since it’s finals week, but I would anyway) to talk with you. But I presume that you won’t want it. Just know that it’s great, and you’d be pretty surprised if you took the time to look for it.

David Kappelt
Antagonistic towards the notion that God loves anyone? No. I can’t be an antagonist on about an emotion concerning a fake being.

God doesn’t exist. This is unarguable in my opinion.

If you’d like to discuss the issue, I would love to.

Aim: daviddolphinlol

Nic Theßeast Laughter
I don’t have aim at the moment, but I will work on getting it. Though, you can be antagonistic toward the humility that it takes and the openness that is required to being wrong about something. If you have it set in your mind that God doesn’t exist, then no amount of evidence will persuade you otherwise. I’m not here to debate; I’m here to show you the truth and love (not an emotion. I hate when people say that love is an emotion) that I’ve come to find. And don’t think I’m just some naïve little Christian boy who’s out to convert the world. Nothing like that. I used to be a staunch atheist and I just want to share the truth that I’ve come to discover with someone who seems to be in the same boat that I was in a few years back.

David Kappelt
The humility and openness that you speak of are exactly what I have and you do not.

I am humble enough to admit that I am alone in my human consciousness in this universe.

And I am open enough to see past the western world delusional paradigm pulled over my eyes since birth.

There is no proof to the belief in any God. I think you know this as well. We can talk about the contradictions in the bible, to the mere fact that it was written undoubtedly by men, to the enormous scientific wells of proof of evolution, age of earth, etc, to the fact that Jesus of Nazareth probably wasn’t even a real person, to the fact that most Christian beliefs are revamped pagan, Egyptian, etc beliefs.

These are things that are true. They are scientific. They are not a delusion. I believe them because I have a logical reason to believe them. I do not believe them because my parents believe them. I do not believe them because it is a grandfathered-in idea. I do not believe it because it is easier to believe than religion. I do not believe it for any self-delusion, self-rewarding, selfish, amoral reason.

If you are going to argue even one of these things I stated, stop, I do not want to hear another word from you, these are nearly immutable facts, that all cant be sourced if you want me to (from multiple PROFESSIONAL sources).

If you can continue, please do.

Nic Theßeast Laughter
And that exactly is why you’re not humble and open. You’ve made up your mind that those are the facts and are unwilling to call into question the truthfulness of the “professionals” you hold such high regard to. I once met a man with a doctorate in physics that taught in a class I attended that a kilometer is longer than a mile. Just because they may have education doesn’t mean they have the slightest idea. Conversely, I could also site multiple other professionals who would all disagree wholeheartedly with all the statements you have made. But it doesn’t matter. You’re arrogant and closed-minded, and you will never change your mind until you decide to. And given that you like to believe what you believe, it will never come by your own choice. Mormons “know” that their doctrine is true just how you “know” that there is no God. Knowledge is subjective and inconsistent. Wisdom and Truth, however, are universal.

So with that, I bid you adieu and a happy life. Should you ever decide to embark on a journey of actual knowledge and decide to question the lies that you believe (and that I once held true as well), know that my door is always open, as I am not spiteful so as to cut communication, no matter how much you insult my faith. I will always be open to helping you find truth. But you have to question everything you think you ‘know’ first. Not that I claim to have all the answers, but I have been where you are and have moved on from there. Not because my family believes it (as I was not raised in a Christian home, and none of my family believed when I did) and not because it’s a grandfathered-in idea (as I have mentioned, the typical “christianity” you see in North America is hardly Christianity at all. What’s more is that I came FROM atheism TO faith in God, so I don’t see how the culture may have influenced me in any way, when all the people I surrounded myself with were like-minded in hating God) and I don’t believe it because it’s easier to believe in religion (I hate religions). I also do not believe it for any self-delusion, self-rewarding, selfish, amoral reason. I believe it because I have a logical reason to believe it. But as I’ve mentioned, knowledge is fallible. And since our logic is only as extensive as our knowledge, if our knowledge is flawed, we must only assume that our logic is as well. Should you care to learn the truth of things, I will be available. But until that happens, I won’t waste time arguing with someone who refuses to think that he’s been believing a lie.

David Kappelt
You can cite a few people, that are hardly considered professionals. If you don’t believe this is the case. Try it. Just try it once. Try to provide multiple professional sources from professionals in a scientific field that have little or no criticisms from other scientists.

The shear majority of the scientific community being non-believers and supporting my beliefs makes me secure in them.

Explain why there needs to be a God.
Explain why, if there is a God, is he the Christian God.

I am perfectly open-minded, and if proof of the necessity or relativeness of a God exerts itself on me at any time, I would be inclined to consider it. No matter what God that may be.

Your beliefs are faith based, therefore, no amount of proof can dissuade you. This is the nature of faith.

See the difference?

What if Thor was real, and viable proof was submitted, my rational thought-based, logic-based, reason-based ideals and decision process allow me to access the knowledge acquired and decide if this proof really is viable.

On the counter-end your faith based beliefs defy all known reason and logic in general. They supersede common-sense, and are garaged in the same room as double-think (see George Orwells 1984). They totally disallow you to see the truth before you, Thor in this example (but continue for evolution, etc). ergo Close-minded, selfish, self-righteous, self-glorify, egotistical.

Nic Theßeast Laughter
First off, you’re hardly in the place to define faith. Especially mine. Regardless, I’ve already told you that I will not waste my time talking to someone with the presupposed idea what what you believe is necessarily correct. You fail to transcend the potentiality of the humans you follow as being flawed, and your logical suicide lies therein. I could argue with you all day long, but that would accomplish nothing. As I stated, you need to be humble. It’s one thing to say you’re open-minded. It’s the opposite to claim that you are right in your thinking and anyone who opposes you is wrong. That is the utter epitome of arrogance and closed-mindedness. To be “perfectly open minded” as you claim is to hold that every person around you at least MAY be wrong, and to hold that you are probably wrong. Not to just believe whatever others tell you, but to give them the benefit of the doubt and to expect to learn something from them.

You’re too much like how I was before I was a Christian, and I know exactly what your next response will be. You’ll be claiming that I OBVIOUSLY can’t support my faith and you’ll think you’re right, etc. etc. But as I have stated clearly in my last message, I won’t waste my time arguing. First, humble yourself, give others the benefit of the doubt, and trust that you can learn from other people. Otherwise, you’ll never learn anything true. You could surround yourself with lots of people and only listen to those who tell you what you want to hear. Does that make it true? Nope. But it’s true in your head. That’s pride.

So, if you decide to open your mind to the possibility that what seems right to you is not actually right, then talk to me. Otherwise, I’m sure there are many other people you can argue with on some forum.

David Kappelt
You missed the point completely.

I am perfectly open minded. I’ll say it one million times because it is true.

Being open minded does not mean you consider things that are totally and completely baseless.

Just because people believe in Scientology, that Xenu galactic emperor of the universe nuked people, golden Boeing 747’s, blah blah blah, Thor throws lightning bolts, Santa Claus delivers toys to everybody on earth, etc, etc, etc forever, does not mean I have to have the will or composure to even consider these things.

They are total and complete bullshit. There is no proof, there is no reason to believe in them. I’m not closed-minded because I don’t entertain the fact that, “Well wait a second Bobby, maybe gnomes and fairies, and Bilbo Baggins are real.”

This is the exact course of every religion ever. A book doesn’t make something true. Millions of people believing something doesn’t make it true. This is identical to your statement that most “Christians” aren’t Christians. If you hold that true. You have to agree with me.

Sure I’m probably wrong about a lot of things. I’m sure scientists are wrong about a lot of things. But at least we are trying to improve. At least we are actively seeking new information. And I am positive that every scientist ever would say with me right now, “I may be wrong.”

So I will say it, I may be Nic. I may be wrong about everything.

Now you fucking say that. Say, “I may be wrong, God may not exist.”

Nic Theßeast Laughter
I do. Every day I do. I very well may be wrong and God very well may not exist. Now I’m here to tell you that I’ve come to see that it requires more faith to believe in evolution and to NOT believe in God than to believe in Him. But, again, you will not consider that, because you’re arrogant and pretty rude. You’re also assumptive and judgmental. However, as I have said time and time again, I won’t waste my time talking to someone who is certain that he has the facts. You solemnly believe that God does not exist and you won’t take the time to consider that you’re wrong about that. You may be open to being wrong about other things, but not that. However, I never said that you would never say you may be wrong. I said you will never consider the potentiality that God is. That’s being closed-minded. So, for the last time, I bid you adieu.

David Kappelt
Your putting God on a pedestal. When he deserves nothing of the sort.

You yourself KNOW that Thor doesn’t exist. You are equally as close-minded by your own definition.

There is no faith in believing in evolution, because it is not a constant precise thing. It is a always changing, developing science. It constantly gets better, and the knowledge base grows and develops. Faith is not needed what-so-ever. It is a theory, read about it, understand it, and if you believe it good, it answers a lot of questions about how things progress, if not, then make up God to fill in the gap.

You are getting upset for the identical reasons you are arguing against.

You can read what I am writing. You know I am absolutely right.

Nic Theßeast Laughter
I’m not getting upset. I’m only baffled at why you are still trying to waste both of our time.

David Kappelt
Because I like discourse.

You won’t answer any questions will you?

Nic Theßeast Laughter
I would if I had reason to believe that it would serve as anything more than debate-fuel.

David Kappelt
Typical.

Tags: debate, facebook, god

This entry was posted on Wednesday, April 15th, 2009 at 3:43 pm and is filed under religion. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.